shrIman.h madhva-mate In Sriman Madhva’s doctrine
1> hariH parataraH Hari (Vishnu) is Supreme
2> satyaM jagat.h The world is true (real)
3> tattvataH bhedaH The differences between
soul God and non sentient are real
4> jIvagaNAH hareH anucharAH The sets of souls are dependent on Hari
5> nIchochcha bhAvaN^gatAH And differ in the status even in the MUkti
6> muktiH naija-sukha-anubhUtiH mukti (liberation) is the
experience of the joy of one’s
own nature
7> amalA-bhaktiH-cha tat.h sAdhanaM That is achieved by flawless
devotion and Yathartha Gyana
correct understanding]
8> axAditritayaM hi pramANaM [perception ] anumana [logic] and
agama [ scriptures] etc.,
are indeed the sources of knowledge
9> akhila-AmnAya-eka-vedyo hariH Hari alone is conveyed in all
the Veda
A tatva is areal entity . A entity [ object ] when perceived as it exists
[ a thing in itself] it is said to be real .
For example a rope is perceived as rope[only] then the object rope is a real entity . But if it is percieved as snake ,
then the object snake is superimposed perception and not real .
All the entities which convey themselves in real are known as tatvas .
Tatvas are of two types , Svatantra and asvatantra [paratantra].
Independent and dependent .
Supreme God Vishnu alone is svatantra independent .
and all others are dependent on HIM .
The paratantra is again divided into BHAVA and ABHAVA.
Bhava is of two types Chetan and ACHETANA .
Chetana is of two types ,
One afflicted by Sorrow and One untouched by Sorrow .
Goddess Laxmi devi is Nitya mukta and untouched by Sorrow .
She is the consort of Vishnu .
The other type Those afflicted by Sorrow are of two types ,
Muktayogya and Muktiayogya .
Muktiyogya are those liberated and unliberated.
rest are of two types , Neech madhyama [ Tamoyogya and nityasamsari].
Muktiyogya are Devata rishi Pitru Raja narottama
Tamoyogya are classified as
daitya rakshas pishacha and naradhama four types .
Muktiyogya reach Vaikuntha and tamoyogya reach andhatamisra .
Both worlds have no return .
Mukti is achieved by Nirmal Bhakti towards the Supreme
and unmixed hate guarantees the andhatamisra .
It is the intrinsic nature of the soul to be under a class .
Achetan is classified as Nitya Anitya And nityaanitya ,
veda akshara and Avyakrut akasha are all nitya .
Purana , kala and prakruti are all nityanitya .
krishnarpanamastu .
Posted by veenapranav on 06/10/2009 at 19:47
Dvaita philosophy is also called called tatvavaada ( realy philosophy)
The basic of dvaita is the the below five differences exist in this creation:
1)aatma and paramaatma are differnet
2)no two aatmaas are same
3) atma and jada(non living thing) are different
4)no 2 jadaas( non living things)
5)paramaatma and jada are different.
Dvaita propogates the theory of vishnu sarvottamatva. ie Vishnu is supreme.
All the tenets of dvaita have valid proof .
Acharya madhwa propogated this philosophy and this tradition is still continously running without any interruption. Time and again many scholars of advaita , charvaaka, buddha , vishistaadvaita etc have tried again and again to debate with dvaita gurus of madhwa parampara and have been defeated badly at all times.
The seers of madhwa parampara have displayed extraordinary powers and miracles.
More info to come…….
Posted by chiraan on 06/10/2009 at 21:45
Shri Pranav , Thanks for the addendum , I would like to add Madhvacharya has not propagated any new philosophy , but this was followed since age immemorial , but as dwapar yuga ascended and with gautam’s Curse all the people forgot dvaita and other devatas other than Vishnu was also prayed as supreme . and suddenly with the advent of advaita all the vedas and vedic ritual got subdued , as adviata meant no reality in vedic dictum. So Madhvacharya and his preachings revived the true meaning of Vedas as Realistic and Vishnu sarvottamatva. I once again thank you for being cief instrument behind this post .
Posted by chiraan on 06/10/2009 at 22:01
In the past 800 years ever since Madhvacharya descended on earth there is no single incident recorded where Dvaita scholars have lost a debate to any other philosophy . The real reason is God can be reached only through Dvaita and nothing less . Unlike common perception all the religions and philososphy leads to God , Dvaita says there is only one way to reach Lord and that is Tattvavada .
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Chiraan S wrote:
> Shri Pranav , > Thanks for the addendum , I would like to add Madhvacharya has not > propagated any new philosophy , but this was followed since age immemorial , > but as dwapar yuga ascended and with gautam’s Curse all the people forgot > dvaita and other devatas other than Vishnu was also prayed as supreme . and > suddenly with the advent of advaita all the vedas and vedic ritual got > subdued , as adviata meant no reality in vedic dictum. > So Madhvacharya and his preachings revived the true meaning of Vedas as > Realistic and Vishnu sarvottamatva. > I once again thank you for being cief instrument behind this post . > >
Posted by Sonu on 11/10/2009 at 01:09
Niraj
Sorry to hear about the issues you had/have been facing and I can image it’s sensitive to discuss. I have nothing against the Swami you follow; it is entirely you’re choice.
I researched Vivekanand as his name is brought up frequently on debates, views do not correspond, and evidence shows he has reformed Hinduism to westernize it. Previously in debates we found SOME of his work on Mahabharata does not the match the original Holy Scriptures, so it is best to flash out what is genuine and what is not. I have some questions
1. Why didn’t Vivekanand preach Hinduism the way it is?
We haven’t seen the West trying to impress the East by reforming their religions.
2. Why was it so essential to impress the Westerners by reforming Hinduism?
Interesting links I found
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=swami+vivekananda&hl=en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=9ivPSrvtFZKC4QbMj9T8Ag&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=19&ved=0CDkQ5wIwEg
States Ramakrishna and Vivekananda were followers of Christianity
3. Niraj, how true is this? If this is true then how can we accept Vivekananda`s as a genuine messenger of Hinduism
http://www.goethals.org/GoethalsNews/gnoct-dec06.htm
“On 24 December 1892, Swami Vivekananda went to Kanyakumari and meditated in Mother Kumari’s temple with the sense of Jesus Consciousness.”
Sanskrit misinterpretations highly emphasised on the debating pages before
http://www.sanskrit.org/www/Sanskrit/sanskrit.htm
“Hinduism has begun to emerge in the West in two significant forms.” “One of the first and most striking examples of the former scenario was Swami Vivekananda’s appearance in Chicago at the Parliament of World Religions in 1896. At the time, Vivekananda received wide coverage in the American press and later in Europe as he travelled to England and other parts of Europe. Along the way he created many followers.”
“Hinduism now developing in the West is being reflected through the lens of Christianity, Judaism and Islam, the theological uniqueness of Hinduism is being compromised or completely lost”
4. Niraj don’t you think religion and the social norms and how people are treated (many social norms are self created by people and not what the religion teaches) are two separate issues? The way a country is operated and the way families practice religion is a different issue. Social status relates to self ego and material desires.
Niraj, as requested by Pranav please continue here! Thanks. Once we can come to a conclusion on this we can discuss i.e ISKON and so on.
Posted by Sonu on 11/10/2009 at 19:36
Summit
You seem to know alot of the teachings in the West and outside India, Lets flash out what is genuine and what is not
Interesting link I found, some of them seem to influence the west significantly.
http://www.indnav.com/servlet/Tour?mt=tourPage&tourId=387
On the page, the 1st names are the following so let’s start by taking about the following first, others can be discussed afterwards.
1. Sri Sathya Sai Baba
2. Osho “Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh”
I am interested in knowing the scriptures they are using to teach?
To what extent do they match the original Sanskrit scriptures?
Have they also reformed the original Hinduism?
Posted by Sonal on 23/10/2009 at 20:22
Thanks for your info on Sai Baba.
People in the West do depend on God (what they believe as their God). The people in the west are also into astrology and seek on how to improve their lives. Its difficult to compare working lives in the west to India. In India where there are opps people do go to work. In general working depends on opportunities, the need for money, ambition, etc. The laws are also different for different countries.
Summit Quote : “Wear this stone on this day ..that might help. Wats the cost of the stone : Rs. 5000- Rs 50,000. Do this ..do that….do this …do that….do u think ppl in the West wud be stupid enough to fall in the trap of a Chiraand ??”
Guru Chiraan isn’t the one selling stones so how does he benefit? people ask him themselves what is suitable for them and what isn’t. People in the West also do wear stones.
Religion and what happens in the countries are two different issues, don’t you think?
All the countries have its advantages and disadvantages.
Posted by chiraan on 23/10/2009 at 22:14
Foolish statements of shameful delhite [Summit]
1. delhi has crime rate higher 2. People in west are happy [ they die happily] 3. people i west have no godmen 4, rape in jaipur [ reality : rape rate in west is highest than any country in the east]
sumeet is suffering from extreme inferiority complex , he is typical errand who has no option but to praise his western paymasters to sustain his day .Poor sumeet has to do the chapplusi of his master he may even lick the foot of the employer[ in the name of self effort] because without that his sustainance will be a zero in foriegn locale , shameful as he is , he is misfit to return back as well so he would rather die ., serving . [ that is his fate]
now to show some of his follies look at the statistics.
Delhi tops metros in crime; national crime rate dips
By Our Special Correspondent
NEW DELHI SEPT. 12 HINDU Delhi’s crime rate was put at 385.8 per lakh of population, much higher than the national average of 172.3.
Chicago Crime Data Click for help http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/il/chicago/crime/
city Annual Crimes VIOLENT PROPERTY TOTAL 35,106 141,384 176,490 annual crimes per 1,000 residents 12.12 48.82 60.94
ie , 12000 per lakh is chicago crime rate and delhi is just 384 , kindly go to std 10 to understand that 12000 > 384 by a factor 40 so be shameful of being in west as well .
Posted by Sonu on 23/10/2009 at 22:44
Sumeet UK is full of crime
http://www.met.police.uk/crimefigures/index.php
Posted by chiraan on 24/10/2009 at 10:42
So has crime rate dropped or increases after that and what about chicago my dear . the gist is you are basing your arguments on what you are seeing on TV [ isnt that stupid] , the statistics show West is more prone to rapes and crime than INdia . SO you should be ashamed of that as well why not?
What you are suggesting is Buddhism is great because west follows it . What is it that west has got by following atheism / no religious fervour They are happy : where is the proof that west is happy , happyness index is lowest compared to other countries , why these statstistics you hae not seen on TV . perhaps you watch on suraksha kavach ads , why dont you watch hair shampoo , exrecise machine slimming tea ads , how foolishly entire america is buying them those ayurvedic potions look at the spas in america everything herbal is is a hit , look how many babas have overseas offiuce and establishment , ISCON is 600 mn $ organisation not because it runs in INDIA but it is a overseas organisation . MAHESH yogi , RAJNEESH, SSB these people earn money not from INDIAbut overseas western following . LOok at the western population in each ashram in INDIA. perhaps you have not seen these ads in TV . amulets from africa vodoo is mostly popular in US . yes there is no ads in us tv . people fear everything insane in US most , This fear is most encashed commodity in US .
I have literally hundred of mails everyday for consulation 70% is western TOMS . richards and roberts . SO we are living in reality you are in a pseudo world .
What you are quoting is also not supported by statistics . if happiness is about boozing ,at will without restrictions , if enjoyments are in other woman , if enjoyments is in others wealth . then perhaps west is best , if by following budhism this is what they are getting what is the Use ,
look at the divorce rates , juvenile crimes ., education now unemployment has also crept in west . Slowly when things worsen , you [ INDIAN ] will be the first person to leave that land as running away from the land is your trait.
the real happiness, is in happy home .a stable marraige ., a contended life , a healthy life . obedient sons , loyal staff , above all peaceful life . Financial success increases these manifold but independently it does not guarantee above . So these are in abundance in INDIA . west is struggling to achieve it , this is because people are religious here , they believe in GOD and they are taken care of . if world would have been better without GOD then by thius time man should have created a heaven for himself in his lifetime , the very fact that he struggles shows that there is some other force that regulates him .
Your discussion is helping us drive a point to many [ as you represent mind set]
Just to educate you, only suraksha kavach , stones do not make up for all the religion and astrology . ANd your thinking that 1 bn grown ups in INdia are all fools to run after suraksha kavachs and only one shyana sumeet in west is better than 1 bn , [ if going by your buddhism is follwed more in the east then west , so is life better in far east than west ] When things work people believe its psychology , you have run away to west because it worked for you , there are lakhs of people for whom it did not work , they have different story to tell . so what sets you all apart is what works and what does not work , BUT TRUTH does not change with individual experience oit has to be eternal
Posted by chiraan on 24/10/2009 at 10:57
here is some more statistics for shameful sumeet
The following facts about United States of America are startling:
* In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes each month and 683,280 rapes each year.
* 1 out of every 3 American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime.
* The United States has the world’s highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics. It’s 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan.
* 83% of rape cases are ages 24 or under.
* 1 in 4 college women have either been raped or suffered attempted rape.
* 1 in 12 males students surveyed had committed acts that met the legal definition of rape. Furthermore, 84% of the men who had committed such acts said what they had done was definitely not rape.
* Only 16% of rapes are ever reported to the police.
# Approximately 48% of victims are raped by a friend or acquaintance; 30% by a stranger; 16% by an intimate; 2% by another relative; and in 4% of cases the relationship is unknown.
# 61% of rapes/sexual assaults are not reported to the police. Those rapists, of course, never serve a day in prison. (1999 NCVS)
# If the rape is reported to police, there is a 50.8% chance that an arrest will be made. If an arrest is made, there is an 80% chance of prosecution. If there is a prosecution, there is a 58% chance of a felony conviction. If there is a felony conviction, there is a 69% chance the convict will spend time in jail. So, even in the 39% of attacks that are reported to police, there is only a 16.3% chance the rapist will end up in prison. Factoring in unreported rapes, about 6% of rapists – 1 out of 16 – will ever spend a day in jail. 15 out of 16 will walk free.
Posted by Vikas on 24/10/2009 at 20:43
I just want to make a point. I have been following this thread …and i find Chiraan and Sonu to be very Anti – US or Anti – West.
Chiraan….the US is the third best country to live in the World. I sincerely hope ..that u understand what that means. And u should u go to the United Nations site …if u want to look at facts and figures. And the UK too is at 21and Australia at number 4.
Country Cost of Living Leisure & Culture Economy Environment Freedom Health Infrastructure Risk & Safety Climate Final Score
France 57 85 62 72 100 84 90 100 86 80
Switzerland 50 77 69 77 100 88 86 100 79 79
United States 63 78 57 67 100 65 100 100 85 78
Luxembourg 55 70 68 73 100 82 74 100 82 77
Australia 57 70 56 58 100 75 91 100 92 76
Belgium 51 75 53 65 100 77 88 100 85 75
Italy 60 86 49 70 100 77 53 100 86 74
Germany 55 70 49 75 100 77 75 100 79 73
New Zealand 57 74 48 71 100 76 59 100 83 72
Denmark 43 75 48 76 100 74 72 100 78 71
Malta 65 67 36 76 100 77 34 93 97 70
Sweden 37 72 47 70 100 72 88 100 69 70
Uruguay 61 67 33 68 100 67 63 100 92 70
Lithuania 70 64 35 74 100 70 56 100 79 70
Czech Republic 58 67 37 69 100 72 84 100 68 70
Norway 48 65 63 72 100 78 62 100 60 70
Austria 51 65 46 78 100 74 66 100 76 70
Netherlands 49 66 47 61 100 75 83 100 75 70
Canada 62 66 47 60 100 72 77 100 66 70
United Kingdom 29 74 50 72 100 7
U should try and understand that they have their own belief systems…..with which they have achieved success.Whenever India lags behind the US ….they make the same excuse \” they have no culture , they r all about sex and alcohol\” ….why do that??? No one has any right to slam a country for wat they believe in. They never impose their beliefs on anyone….and in fact they appreciate religions of the World. Crime is everywhere . Where isnt it??
And i have been to India….conditions are much better in the US. I can quote statistics too. And everyone is jumping on this guy summit. Give him a break.
Chiraan i did not expect this from u. A wise man never criticizes others for their beliefs. It looks like u have an inflated ego …and u dont like it when people go against u.
Posted by chiraan on 25/10/2009 at 02:48
We are not anti west or Anti US , what we are against is Indians who think they have hit gold mine on flying to US. make fun of culture and issues .. This pseudo mindset coupled with inferiority complex and also desire to sin is evident and has to be exposed ,
Wiseness does not mean accept everything that is not reality . wiseness is not pacification . The moment you start that you get engulfed by evil .
There is very big difference between egoistic behaviour and authoritative behaviour . Look at Sumeet all the while he was psoing as a saint who is realised and does sadhana etc etc , . but he showed his colors the moment he was taken to task .
Thus pseudo behaviour would never have been highlighted had we made a sweet talk .
If I had a inflated ego . i would have not entertained Any talk against me , but look at posts ,. every criticism on me has been represented without censorship .
This site is about reality , and reality is sinners do not like a good service ,. They are bound to react we cannot be afraid of them nor do we suppress freedom of asking queries in the name of self respect .
So when someone criticises Chiraan ., chiraan wants them to debate on those points ., if they make a valid point ,. people are here to witness and analyse . This interaction grows and helps understand the visitors the real philosophy .
If we dont debate and face reality how can we know the truth .
Debate means there has to be opposing views , and opposing views do clash , my words are sharper and lethal and more so the truth as i portray is far more indigestible to present society . So as a last resort people do use slang . worse in a direct debate there has been instances of poisoning , attack ,abuse ,. BUt that does not mean we should shy away from TRUTH . CHiraan handled and handles all these equanimously by the grace of LORD HAri vayu and GURU .
Posted by Sonu on 24/10/2009 at 22:45
Vikas I am not Anti US or Anti west. Summit has started talking about the west like it is some heaven place and bad mouthing India (where half of it isnt true). Its more like Summit who is very Anti India and you sound like that too.
Summit has started accusing Guru Chiraan of being a fraudster and of conning people, using rude language, of course people are going to give an opinion. I Again if genuine people dont agree with views more than a few times after debating its surprising to see why they come to a particular site or place, if i didnt agree with the teachings on this site I may ask few questions or none at all and wouldnt come back again. If I was really passionate about teaching and full confidence in my teachings with evidence I would have gone elsewhere to preach.
Posted by K on 23/10/2009 at 23:02
Summit – Unfortunately, You have only seen the rosy part of the west.
let me tell you of an incident which i saw with my own bare eyes:
1. A helpless homeless lady knocked on the door of a house in UK and was taken in. When she came out she was bleeding all over. She was thrown out in utter merciless state.
——
Also.
2. HAve you ever been to the downtown areas of some of the US cities at night ? Dont even try.. Rest is for you to explore.
3. Have you ever fallen sick in the US ? I mean bed ridden OR with a fracture OR struck by extreme Cold in winter etc..(God bless you with all round health…. this is just a hypothetical situation)…
4. I was going with my friend in a cab where in due to migraine he suddenly passed out (vomit) in the car on the back seat.He did not even get a second to tell the driver to stall the car. The cab driver instead of being sympathetic or asking him to take to hospital, asked him to clean up. I asked the cab to diver to take to the nearest gas station and bought the driver some wipes, water etc.. while my friend was cleaning up the mess.
5. Drugs…. how many lives is it taking up every year ? LEaves many english youth jobless and with no aim in life.
I am not sayin the west is useless, but it has its own share of problems to deal with. When you say India or indians are useless, west is no better… except that they have kept surroundings clean and livable physically. Not mentally. Mentally everybody is more stressed out than a poor man in india.
K
Posted by Sonu on 24/10/2009 at 15:21
Summit
Perhaps the higher rate currency is attracting you, when you get in a mess the expenses are unbearable abroad. Not everyones days are the same.
Why are you defending foriegn countries? You havent experienced the real side! Foreign countries are undercover or blatently racist.
Australia is known to be very racist.
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=9017
Its not good to defend foreign countries and speak against your own country like the way you have (esp when half the stuff isnt true), anything can happen where you will have no choice but go back to your own country. Back in the days indians were told to leave Africa, majority when back to India and were empty handed.
Posted by Sonu on 24/10/2009 at 16:27
Indians that live in western countries depend on India to do religious ceremonies, etc.
religious practices are more consistent in countries like India.
In western countries some people know about religion & God, but only pray when they in distress or want something or only when world disasters strike. Unfortunately money doesn’t buy everything. Religious practices are not consistent
In western countries teachers don’t have enough knowledge to teach religion.
In western countries many people don’t make it religious practices obvious, in places like i.e. UK by law in a work place there are certain ways you have to act and limited to what you can say and do etc.
Posted by chiraan on 24/10/2009 at 16:51
Every person has his fortune intact , some make it outside, some in their own country ,but yet every one makes it according to his capacity , and destiny . one cannot blame others for having made it better .
If Raj thackeray has his words going today , its because he is in good times . The same Bal thackeray whose criticism fetched lots of flake in earlier is today criticised because he has become weak . This is what is destiny , one goes up and down . In west Powerful mafia operates in background , they control politicians even in worst manner than Raj does it . Even WESt handled Afghanistan in a manner that they would not have done in their own backyard . [ its natural strong abuses weak, it does not matter whether east or west ] Controversies are abundant everywhere , There is a query from US in my mail where a local politician has evacuated a couple from their home , through his links in BANK . When it comes to Australia Sumeet wants to be logical and analytical , but wrt India he believes what he sees in TV and is ashamed of it . This is inferiority complex . This is so high when someone assertatively says something to him he finds it being superior . But when his paymaster says it he obeys and defends it because he has no choice, because he is at their mercy .
Posted by chiraan on 25/10/2009 at 02:25
So summit Aukad pe agaye , issi ka toh intejar tha , YOGAvashishtha ka vasta dikhane wale , Buddhism ki baat karne wale , kitne pani [ nale me] me khare utarte hai HAin yehi toh sabit karna that so tune kiya . The evil is in the teachings that is anti GOD . It cannot sustain much test of truth it comes out , so your garb of YV , Budhdism weared off within minutes . Your IP gives your location too , so your brags about foriegn countries were also caught . The moment you are cornered , you have shown your colors .
So it makes all the more sense to refute .
In one of your posts you showed fear of shaap [ curse ] , so that is not required because , weeds by the shore of sea gets destroyed all by itself .
samundar ke kinare wale bel apne aap hi gal jate hain . samay ke chalte , unhe alag se shaap dene ki jaroorat nahi .
sea is the representation of waves of sins that arise in mind . they themselves destroy the person harbouring them .
Posted by chiraan on 24/10/2009 at 16:58
When the mercy has been lifted , yes We do not suggest to come back because west still needs people like you to clean utensils and toilets , in bad days that the best self effort that can be made you see , it does not require qualification s .
It takes a lion to think like “bhuk lagne par sher ghas nahi khata ”
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Chiraan S wrote:
> Every person has his fortune intact , some make it outside, some in their > own country ,but yet every one makes it according to his capacity , and > destiny . one cannot blame others for having made it better . > > If Raj thackeray has his words going today , its because he is in good > times . The same Bal thackeray whose criticism fetched lots of flake in > earlier is today criticised because he has become weak . This is what is > destiny , one goes up and down . > In west Powerful mafia operates in background , they control politicians > even in worst manner than Raj does it . > Even WESt handled Afghanistan in a manner that they would not have done in > their own backyard . [ its natural strong abuses weak, it does not matter > whether east or west ] Controversies are abundant everywhere , > There is a query from US in my mail where a local politician has evacuated > a couple from their home , through his links in BANK . > When it comes to Australia Sumeet wants to be logical and analytical , but > wrt India he believes what he sees in TV and is ashamed of it . This is > inferiority complex . This is so high when someone assertatively says > something to him he finds it being superior . But when his paymaster says it > he obeys and defends it because he has no choice, because he is at their > mercy . > > >
Posted by chiraan on 24/10/2009 at 16:30
Yes we have fully realised that you have gone abegging with beggin bowl for livelyhood to every country possible and made a good life out of it , but that does not entitle you to highlight the problems of the country which has been never yours .
You can highlight only when you have zeal to change the situation . And I disagree that you have not had any problems overseas , only you dont want to share them . because it will hurt your stance . As I have mentioned things are about to change and The set of Sumeets will be first to leave the land when things go wrong .
Posted by Sonu on 24/10/2009 at 16:37
Summit you said “India….but we all know the nice things….its the problems that we need to highlight.”
Well you have highlighted the issues, being an Indian (which you may be proud of), what suggestions do you have to improve India?
You said you have studied abroad and lived there hence makes you knowledgeable, you may get special treatment and it may be very easy for you to get an appointment with the Indian prime minister to resolve issues and set rules and regulations?? Have you tried?
Posted by Sonu on 24/10/2009 at 17:36
Regardless of what you say, most west countries are racist undercover.
http://content.mycareer.com.au/advice-research/search/racism.aspx
Most outsiders to the country dont find good jobs right away and start of low (but would never admit that in India but would rather make out like money grows on trees in their back gardens to show off), even if outsiders do find good jobs they struggle somewhere along the lines for all kinds of reasons compared to the people who are the colour and religion of that country
Posted by K on 24/10/2009 at 15:43
Summit – There are far too many fake babas who cheat the common public. We are all aware of them. But Chiraan is not one of those babas.He has never claimed to be God or Guru.
This is an open and free forum. He is one of the very few who have taken the pains to dig the history and open up the facts from its very origin for interest of common public. Your observations in general about the mindset in india is correct to a certain extent, but to generalize the same and include every religious person in that category would be a sense of biasness.
Democracy and bureaucracy are totally different topics altogether and not suited for this forum. Having said that, your observations in those topics are not entirely wrong. But, we are not discussing those here, as it will open a completely different can of worms and deviate us all from learning the right contents on this forum.
I would also like to add that those online sites and books published on religion are not all true and authentic. Authenticity of the mythological literature comes in being in contact with genuine people who have been passed that information from original scriptures over a period of time and generations without any manipulation and with valid and vedic proofs. Those online and books content is only referenceable and not reliable for the authenticity of events and facts.
Also, at the end of the day, whom to trust for authenticity lies with the individual himself. You trust your sources that’s great and Chiraan knows what he is doing thats fine. No third person can change your views.
But we need to realize that this forum belongs to Chiraan and not you and me. If we trust Chiraan and can debate his material on valid grounds and proofs, we can remain here, else, we cannot impose ourselves on the owner of this forum. It’s as simple as that. If i did not agree and I was you, I would debate to an extent where in my proofs are authentic as per my thoughts in paras above. If these were just taken from some places where the originals have been misinterpreted or not translated appropriately, I would not go further into the debate.
My belief in Chiraan comes from the fact that he is transforming lives positively by letting the people know the unknowns within us.
Maybe you have not had a turbulent life where in you never know how the ill fate is hitting you from no where. Your hard work will definitely take you to heights as per your thoughts on the west above. But it will only help you achieve the materialistic part in bits and pieces and in phases not the spiritual part which leads to salvation. Sitting in the temples and just praying God to help human self achieve the goals may not be the entire part of Karma. That’s why Chiraan is a Software Entrepreneur besides living the religious part of the life. That’s his Karma and dharma both. He is not relying on money generated by the advices he is providing here. That proves he does not have any hidden materialistic benefits behind this religious and astrological forum.
My two cents.
Regards
K
Posted by chiraan on 24/10/2009 at 17:49
Look at the childish statements of Sumeet . quote ” I think the most powerful instrument a human has for achieving salvation ….is his mind. Bondage is in the mind…and so is freedom. Once that is conquered …we move on to the soul. Unquote ‘
He is still thinking , and is not sure about anything . Yet there is no statement saying This is so ….. this is the state of mind .
‘ we move on to soul … what is we , is it the soul or mind . this is foolish . His statement shows , he is different from mind , so he co. nquers it and frees it from bondage then moves on to soul . he moves on to soul , so what is he ., what was the soul … that he moves on to . when he moves on does it interact and undergo changes , to achieve some state , [ that is why he wants to move on .... He has read vedas in Foreign universities , perhaps what he means is translation . and what he is read he is sure it is not found elsewhere even in india , hiw rubbish ,. people come to Indian libraries in search of eastern literature . and sumeet reads it in universities ,
Such foolish claims he wants us to accept . Sumeet nobody is asking you to defend anything , You are displaying your ignorance with each post and your state is vastly because of your own belief We dont bother whether you change or not , But it is a must to know what is right and wrong ,. EVEN in the land that you lead life has certain dos and donts . and I am sure even in your wildest dreams you would think of defaulting them because that would mean an end to your freeodm ,. It is this fear that causes you stick to the dharma of land .however dubious that may be . This shows you do not do what you belief [ There is nothing right or wrong ] this statement of yours even you are not folllowing so why make such a statement .
As I already said you are miserable in beliefs also . The fact is you do not have any belief . What you have read is just few translations from people who were bent to show east has no philosophy , you are a byproduct . What you call as outdated [vedas],. I practise ,it crores of people like me practise and benefit from it . If you dont see any benefit it shows your own self . But you cannot say , crores of people wrong in following something , which you never have read ,and You who knows nothing even from basic life can comment on Vedic culture just on one qualification of having gone begging for livelihood to various uncultured spots . [ I am sure you would not be able to give even one sentence from vedic scriptures and its meaning , ] What you are stating is pure VIPAREET Gyana and Refuting such thoughts is the prime dharma .
Look slowly you have retreated because the more you open your mouth more immaturity spills out and it makes you look dimunitive which in the begining you had misconception that you are someone who needs to be taken seriously on account of living in mercy somewhere in periphery .
Posted by chiraan on 24/10/2009 at 18:17
“There is nothing right or wrong in this world ”
Let us analyse this statement Previously I have shown . every land has its own constitution , no one dares to flout them for fear of punishment . Even the perpetrators of ‘ there is nothing right or wrong ” do not dare to flout the rights and wrongs of the land . When such hypocrisy is seen in the makers of such statement , it shows ulterior motive getting people into sin [ or giving vent to sin in self]
Such people [ those who say " there is nothing right or wrong ....."] when they object to cHIRAAN saying this right and this wrong what they are doing is saying CHIRAAN is wrong ! aren’t they contradicting themselves , because [ there is nothing right or wrong ] how come chiraan becomes wrong , if chiraan is wrong then [ there is right and wrong ]
So it is like saying ” Dont follow any guru ! you are your own master ” The person teaching this is indirectly telling not to follow him ie , follow a master .
So the philosophies which are against vedic teachings are always self contradictory . A thorough scrutiny and logic helps to conclude .
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Chiraan S wrote:
> Look at the childish statements of Sumeet . > quote ” > > I think the most powerful instrument a human has for achieving salvation > ….is his mind. > Bondage is in the mind…and so is freedom. Once that is conquered …we > move on to the soul. > Unquote ‘ > > He is still thinking , and is not sure about anything . Yet there is no > statement saying This is so ….. this is the state of mind . > > ‘ we move on to soul … > what is we , is it the soul or mind . this is foolish . His statement shows > , he is different from mind , so he co. nquers it and frees it from bondage > then moves on to soul . he moves on to soul , so what is he ., what was the > soul … that he moves on to . when he moves on does it interact and undergo > changes , to achieve some state , [ that is why he wants to move on .... > He has read vedas in Foreign universities , perhaps what he means is > translation . and what he is read he is sure it is not found elsewhere even > in india , hiw rubbish ,. people come to Indian libraries in search of > eastern literature . and sumeet reads it in universities , > > Such foolish claims he wants us to accept . Sumeet nobody is asking you to > defend anything , You are displaying your ignorance with each post and your > state is vastly because of your own belief > We dont bother whether you change or not , But it is a must to know what is > right and wrong ,. > EVEN in the land that you lead life has certain dos and donts . and I am > sure even in your wildest dreams you would think of defaulting them because > that would mean an end to your freeodm ,. > It is this fear that causes you stick to the dharma of land .however > dubious that may be . > This shows you do not do what you belief [ There is nothing right or wrong > ] this statement of yours even you are not folllowing so why make such a > statement . > > As I already said you are miserable in beliefs also . The fact is you do > not have any belief . What you have read is just few translations from > people who were bent to show east has no philosophy , you are a byproduct . > What you call as outdated [vedas],. I practise ,it crores of people like me > practise and benefit from it . > If you dont see any benefit it shows your own self . But you cannot say , > crores of people wrong in following something , which you never have read > ,and You who knows nothing even from basic life can comment on Vedic culture > just on one qualification of having gone begging for livelihood to various > uncultured spots . [ I am sure you would not be able to give even one > sentence from vedic scriptures and its meaning , ] > What you are stating is pure VIPAREET Gyana and Refuting such thoughts is > the prime dharma . > > Look slowly you have retreated because the more you open your mouth more > immaturity spills out and it makes you look dimunitive which in the begining > you had misconception that you are someone who needs to be taken seriously > on account of living in mercy somewhere in periphery . > > > > > > >
Posted by Sonu on 25/10/2009 at 02:17
Summit you said
“I have even read the Vedas….but most of it is outdated and personally i dont think most of the practices mentioned are possible.”
“All books i read were in my University ….where i spent a considerable amount of time.” “And most of these books cannot be found in India…i m very sure about that. It was like a tresure house.”
“I dont really believe in Astrology….or palmistry or watever…..though i wudnt mind getting my palms read for fun.” This is a contradiction don’t you think? people wouldn’t do things they don’t believe in whether its serious or fun. I wouldn’t be surprised if astrologers like Guru Chiraan started telling you about your life/past by reading your stars/palm you would still turn around and say that’s incorrect I write/wrote my own destiny. In fact if Guru Chiraan was not genuine, if he really was out to get you, by now he would told you all your shameful deeds by now in public. You should think about what you say.
The original scriptures are from India aren’t they??? Translators have used versions from India. How can the Vedas be outdated??? Did you find an updated version at your uni? Vedas is supposed to be the way it is, there is no question of updating it time to time to suit individuals and reforming Hinduism. The Vedas is difficult to grasp by any common man.
By the way I can see you replying to Guru Chiraans posts. I think you are enjoying all this deep down which is why you keep comming back
Posted by Sonu on 24/10/2009 at 16:12
Summit! If you go through this whole blog carefully, Guru Chiraan has not claimed to be a baba that performs miracles or is God himself, he has emphasised to be aware and that it is a sin for oneself to claim himself as God and to pray to babas as God.
Guru Chiraan does not sell stones so how can he be making a profit? He knows Hindu religion well enough to preach and is an astrologer where can predict and recommend remedies (most relate to praying and fasts) many people have left comments on guest page to say how all these recommendations have helped, so there is no question of magic and conning people.
I don’t know what you have against him personally, but you have misunderstood him.
Posted by chiraan on 23/10/2009 at 03:04
1. Prithvi Tatava is dominant in Kali – Yug humans.
2. Why were ppl able to fly in Sat- Yug.
3. Geeta is the scripture for Kali-Yug
4.why does God cause Adharma??( If he does)
ALL THE QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED PROPERLY POOR TINY BRAIN HAS NO GRASP OF EVEN FIGURING THEM OUT
LET ME HELP YOU [ I MEAN GIVE YOU BAISAKHI ]
Q1 . THIS IS FAULTY STATEMENT ,PRITHVITATTVA IS NOT DOMINANT IN KALIYUGA , PADMA VACHAN POWERFULLY REFUTES IT , DURING A ll THE YUGAS TATVAS REMAIN IN SAME CONSTITUTION .
2. PEOPLE FLYING ,IN SATYUGA ,
THIS IS CHILDISH QUESTION [ ITS NOT SERIOUS PHILOSOPHY]
ANYONE WHO HAS GAINED MASTERY OVER UDAN VAYU CAN FLY , EVEN IF ITS IS KALIYUGA , MANY YOGIS AND ACHARYAS HAVE DEMONSTRaTED THIS . vADIRAJA SWAMY HAS DEMONSTRATED MANY TIME .
ITS A YOGIC SIDHDHI . DHYANA IS COMMON DHARMA IN SAT YUGA , YAGNYA IS MUKHYA DHARMA IN TRETA AND DEV POOJA IS DWAPARA , ONLY NAAM JAPA IS IMPORTANT IN KALI .
SO FLYING IS NOT YUGA DEPENDENT BUT DEPENDENT ON UDAN VAYU .
UDAN VAYU IS PRESENT IN HUMANS EVEN IN KALIYUGA .
SO THE QUESTION IS STUPID .
3.GEETA IS SCRIPTURE OF KALI
FALSE . KRISHNA HIMSELF SAYS HE HAS TAUGHT IT TO SURYA AND VIVASWAAN , SO IT EXISTED EARLIER ALSO .
AGAIN FAULTY UNDERSTANDING .
4 WHY DOES GOD CAUSE ADHARMA , THAT IS THE PAPA SADHANA OF TAMASIC SOULS . GEETA AND BHAGAVAT IS TESTIMONY TO IT ,
SUMEET HAS NOT READ IT NOR UNDERSTOOD IT PERHAPS VENTASANAND DID NOT MENTION IT OR TRANSLATORS HE IS FOLLOWING HAVE OVERLOOKED , SO SUMEET HAS BEEN LEFT OUT OF THIS IMPORTANT TEACHING .
POOR SUMEET . GO GET ANOTHER REFRESHER COURSE IN MEDITATION AT VENATASANAND ASHRAMA , BY THE WAY READ BHAGAVAT ITS A GOOD STORY , IT TELLS YOU REAL MEANING OF SURRENDER TO GOD
Posted by Anonymous on 25/10/2009 at 01:41
Summit! Do you even have the foggiest idea of how you sound? you have said it many times you wont come back on here.
Rather than asking intelligent questions and sharing information there seems to be a cuss fight going on, enough is enough. The main purpose of the articals are being lost in the unnecessary waddle of comments and use of slang and rude language. By the way there are viewers on the site who dont even understand extensive Hindi language.
I suggest going forward any abusive and inappropriate comments should be blocked or deleted..
Posted by Anonymous on 25/10/2009 at 01:44
“AND DONT POST HERE ..PLEASE ….STAY AWAY…”
You dont own this site! Get a life and do something useful with it.
Posted by Sonu on 25/10/2009 at 02:39
Summit fake baba`s and dependency on them does not only exist in India.
http://www.money.co.uk/article/1001368-britons-scammed-out-of-3-5-billion-a-year-by-fake-psychics-and-bogus-lotteries.htm
“Offers of sweepstakes, misleading prize draws, fake psychics, miracle health cures and bogus lotteries were cited by the OFT as the ‘top 5’ scams used by fraudsters to extract money from their unsuspecting victims. They did however acknowledge that this is only the tip of the iceberg.”
http://www.badpsychics.co.uk/au/modules/news/article.php?storyid=31
Posted by Sonu on 25/10/2009 at 03:37
Sumeet FYI – the things you probably didn’t come across while you were abroad. It’s not only Indians who depend on astrology. I am not anti west, I just want to highlight that people do all kinds of things in any country to improve their lives.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/consumer_advice/latest_scams_emp.shtml
4. Clairvoyant mailings – “offering predictions that will change your life – in return for a payment. They may be more sinister, threatening bad luck unless you buy their talisman or amulet. 170,000 of us fall for this every year – 70 per cent of them women – and the total loss of money annually is around £40m a year”
http://media.www.thetriangle.org/media/storage/paper689/news/2004/10/29/SciTech/Psychics.Fake.Spirit.Mediums.Actually.Money.Monkeys-786327.shtml
“John Edward, who runs the farce called Crossing Over on the Sci-Fi channel, is a millionaire. People pay him $1500 an hour to have him speak to their dead comrades.”
http://www.fengshuiweb.co.uk/
“Feng Shui principles in your environment, your life and those around you can change – for the better”
International Academy of Feng Shui, attracting students and Feng Shui Practitioners from all over the world including the United Kingdom, United States of America, Canada, Thailand, Iceland, Spain, Ireland, Estonia, Switzerland, Singapore and Hong Kong, to name but a few.
The west is also into tarot readings.
Posted by chiraan on 25/10/2009 at 04:23
Sonu ,Purpose of Sumeet ’s visit on site was not to talk about east or west . nor was it serious religious discussion . he wanted to make a point of athiesm to thwart it , he wanted to make use of a standard technique of “I am in WEST , so I am successful . [ most middle class mindsets bramhins included would accept that working class has fancy for dubai ] , hence listen to me ” This syndrome works . and people back home are also confused yes why we dont make it big , even though we pray , we are religious ,.
And west they seem not to do anything but they appear strong . This discussion was intended to show that such understanding need not be true . WHY ? because there is never a second coming in WEST ! i shall elaborate with a post . the page is about tatvavada and should not be deviated .
Posted by SSummitt on 25/10/2009 at 10:07
Chiraand ..
And again if u say that i clean toilets in the west …
I dont why ppl fall for like u. …,then advise people.
Well , what can anyone do …its …Kali Yuga….tum jaison ki hee pooja hogi.
Posted by SSummitt on 25/10/2009 at 10:12
U think u can catch my IP ??/ hahahaha………u shud be glad that ur site is still intact.
Posted by chiraan on 25/10/2009 at 17:48
Nothing is going to happen to this site , yes your days are definitely numbered ,. There seems to be overconfidence that you are dealing with someone meek . This also will wear out soon ,
i know fear of cleaning toilets is immense in you as last time it was very painful for you . Don’t think your slang will let us go away the from you ,because it is natural when people get cornered they get foul mouthed , it only proves your stance is wrong .
And one more thing you have been already located . . .. proxy2 Guardster will not save you
Posted by SUMMITT on 26/10/2009 at 16:16
Chiraan you can stop me from posting here.
.
Sum1 is having problems getting a job ..they contact u , sum1 has problems with her husband …they contact u….health problems and blah blah blah. Nothing wrong with that….if they have faith in u… they can.
Thats not spirituality for me ….its a science …that may work may not work ..who knows.
Chiraan ….u can advise ppl If i want to believe in the YV…its my problem. If u want to believe in ur scriptures u can stick to them. ..i dont find any difference in any Hindu scripture….
.
I have never said that u r wrong …
Ur philosphy is just one way of looking at things….but i wud endorse it .. And i dont know if thats what u really want.
Cleaning toilets and all…is not sumthing u can say to anyone .. I dont even know what prompted u to say that.
And u r at the top …..Brahmin …the exclusive class of people …who know and can impart the knowledge of the divine.
Posted by Summmit on 27/10/2009 at 20:08
Cleaning toilets and all…is not sumthing u can say to anyone .. I dont even know what prompted u to say that.
Looks like I got scared
.
Posted by Sonu on 25/10/2009 at 14:45
Summit above you said “JESUS IS THE LORD”, he certainly is for followers of Christianity but not for Hindu`s.
You have said you studied Hindu books at University. I have observed you dont have respect for Lord Krishna, whilst abroad did you convert to Christainity? because you were not able to grasp Hinduism?
Perhaps this explains why you refuse to believe the real teachings of Hinduism and not willing to learn, I am afraid trying to malign Hindu scriptures wont work on this site, someone has tried before, he was a better debator than you are and it did not work, you are wasting your time.
Posted by chiraan on 25/10/2009 at 18:41
One of the points that has come across in the debate is
Is evil in the world under the control of GOD or not ?
The answer is YES
If Evil in tis world is independently carried out without the will of the GOD then omnipotence of GOD will be compromised ,.
EVerything in this world runs only according to the wishes of GOD.
Then if it is accepted GOD does create evil , then is GOD evil
No GODis full of auspicious qualities only .
Then how the two statement corerrelate ,
Some philosophies , say as there is darkness below the lamp , so does all the opposites exists in GOD as well .
This cannot be true ,
As even darkness and light cannot stay together , if goodness in GOD is accepted there cannot be evil , BUt yet EVILis also under the control of GOD.
This explains there are tamasic souls as well . and they are also reflections of GOD , and GOD regulates them as well . Its only through KALI LORD makes evil happen in the world . ITS only THROUGH MUKHYAPRANA that GODspreads regulates GOOD in this world .,
KALI is taken to task by MUKHYAPRANA ie GOD as PRESENT IN MUKHYAPRANA,
So evils say that its GOD’s wish to spread evil so accept it , is refuted as , GOD is prayed only through MUKHYAPRANA .
There are different modes of prayers to GOD ,. GOD in child is prayed by caring , GOD in parents is prayed by seva
GOD in teacher is prayed by learning
GOD others is prayed by friendship .
GOD in EVIL is prayed by refuting and resisting .
SO evil has to fought with , resisted and taken to task . THIS is the prayer to LORD.keeping quiet is sin . this is also tatvavada . [ So abusing and asking accept because GOD did it is not a logic ]
WORSHIP to GOD is only as LORD as present in BHEEMSEN.